(November 17, 1998)

bill: please welcome to the much environment a return visit. marilyn manson's been twice to the much environment before. he's back again. thanks for coming. the reason why you're here is because the show is in toronto tomorrow.

manson: that's right.

bill: what are you gonna do tonight? do you have plans for tonight?

manson: we're doing a record signing at hmv.

bill: well, that's in the early afternoon. you have the whole night off though.

manson: i don't know yet. i don't have any plans.

bill: i'm sure you'll get into some fun. anyway, this is the latest album, "mechanical animals," the ongoing chapter in the life of marilyn manson; obviously a new look, a new sound. was that a conscious effort, or you just felt it was time to maybe vary things up a little bit?

manson: well, just with my personality, i feel the need to grow. i get bored easy. i think it would have been silly to repeat what i already did, so -- because the last album changed me so much and writing a book changed me, this is kind of the result of the change, you know, second part to the story.

bill: we'll talk about some of the changes a little bit later. but you've always cited bowie, mark bolan as huge references always. but why now? why this album for an obvious nod to that sound, to that period?

manson: seven of the songs on the album are kind of an homage to what people make me out to be, sort of an icon. the other seven songs are more internal, and because the record was about me putting myself back together again after stripping away all my emotions, i was thinking about my childhood a lot, so the music that i liked growing up was very inspirational on this record.

bill: okay. you've picked l.a. as your home now, and throughout the whole record are these little glimpses of the lifestyle, maybe the mentality involved. from the standpoint of you laughing at it almost, but yet you choose to live there and seem comfortable there; there's a bit of a dichotomy.

manson: that's kind of the way i've always lived in that paradox, you know. we started the band in florida, which is a very sunny place, very happy place, and it kind of created, you know, an angry tone for what we were doing. so to find a place like l.a., where i don't feel comfortable, i in turn feel comfortable. so it's kind of a bizarre paradox.

bill: you seem to be revelling in it, though, like really enjoying the lifestyle and yet laughing at it.

manson: that's the only way you can enjoy it, you know. so many people are part of it or they hate it, but if you -- you know, you can't write about something unless you live it. you can't stand back and say, well, this is wrong or this is that. you have to get in it and tell people about it.

bill: okay. and is the acting element that goes along with being there, you're going to be in a movie soon with rose, i was just reading.

manson: very small part. just a sex scene. that's all i'm really good for.

bill: you did that in the david lynch film, too. yeah, see? typecast.

bill: you're being typecast, i know. well, i guess that's good. now, you've always wanted to, you've said, change the mainstream; it was always a big goal. do you feel you're there yet or almost there?

manson: i think so. right now, it's kind of a struggle to put rock 'n' roll back in the mainstream, you know, in general. so i think i'm kind of, like, pulling a lot of weight for other bands as well because rap music is so strong in america; there isn't any real rock stars, something that i've still been fighting for all these years.

bill: okay. we're going to take a look at "dope show," the first single from "mechanical animals." we have something called the mtv version where the word "queer" is pixilated out and the vocal is dropped out for that word, but yet there's two cops kissing. i understand with the george michael video there's also two cops kissing, which they had to ban.

manson: i don't know. i find it silly because, you know, i don't think anything's hateful about saying the word "queer" in the context that i used it, and it's just one of those things. you know, there's always a double standard. there's always bizarre rules, especially for me because people are always questioning what my motives are. i'm always under the microscope, so if i say the word "queer," they automatically think it should be, you know, bleeped out.

bill: why the trend in cops kissing, do you think? two videos in the past three months where that's happening.

well, i think cops inherently represent gay icons. it's the night stick... (laughter)

bill: that threatens people.

manson: i've been to jail and i've been touched in certain places by police officers, so i'm trying to give back to the community what they give to me.

bill: in the process of them frisking you, i guess?

manson: yes, absolutely.

bill: (laughing) okay. we're going to take a look at "dope show," but join us because we're going to be back and talk some more. don't go away. it's quiet crowd here. (video played) (applause)

bill: "dope show" from "mechanical animals." of course marilyn manson who's here in the environment, and we're just talking about a second video completed, which will be on the air real soon, i guess a matter of weeks. for what single?

manson: "i don't like the drugs but the drugs like me."

bill: now, the reference to drugs comes up a lot on the record, and i'm just wondering -- because you've admitted doing a lot or experimenting a lot. is there something you're trying to say with the song?

manson: well, the whole album, i speak about this unobtainable entity called "coma white," which at times could be looked at as a drug or a person or even the fans or even myself; and i try and point out on the album that drugs kind of go beyond the obvious and that it kind of exists and just people's need to suppress their feelings. as i started to gain back all my emotions and talk about them on the record, i began to see the rest of the world as being very mechanical, and drugs, you know, as a metaphor are how people suppress, you know, being actually human with religion or with television or whatever you want to, you know, choose.

bill: any cops kissing in that video? probably not.

manson: no cops kissing in that video.

bill: prior to this album, i guess after the biography was written, you talked about, for the first time in your life, for the first time in years gaining empathy for people, and i guess for situations. saying that, i'm wondering if, in order to have empathy, you have to understand someone's mentality or where they're coming from before you can have empathy. that's what empathy is. so having said that, has there been any regret over things you might have said or did in the past?

manson: no, no. i think you learn from mistakes learned from all your experiences, not even just as a writer, not even as a musician or spokesperson or whatever people wanna expect me to be; just is a person who writes down their thoughts. it all comes from experience, so i think the more you live, the more you have to say, so i don't regret anything i've done.

bill: fair enough. the aspect of making mistakes, you talked about -- do you care to elaborate what kind of mistakes you think you've made in the past?

manson: uhmm, aside from a few really bad guitar players, not that many.

crowd: oh!

manson: oh, come on.

bill: poor zim fans out there. they're all upset right now.

manson: sorry.

bill: okay. so that's just it?

manson: but there was one girl that lives here in canada who unfortunately got zim zum tattooed on her stomach. i feel bad for her the most.

bill: that's not you, is it? no.

manson: no, that's not her.

bill: okay.

manson: it's not their fault they're bad guitar players. they're nice people.

bill: what about the stance on certain people's faith? you've always --

manson: i've kind of adapted a new feeling towards christianity this year, and that is to point out that although the religion, i don't agree with; the idea of jesus christ as an icon, i've started to appreciate on a different level, because to me he was the first rock star. he had his shirt off. he was wearing the loin cloth. he had the twelve disciples drinking wine. he had prostitutes. so i identify with him most now. i think i'm bringing back what christ started. after all, god invented drugs. god invented rock 'n' roll. so why can't we all enjoy 'em?

bill: the way you speak about it, though, you know, to have empathy, these people who have found peace, people who have faith, they have found peace. to them it is a tangible thing and they're happy.

manson: well, i think the happy ones, we don't hear from. the ones that haven't found peace are the angry ones that are trying to stop us from having fun; so i don't think they've found peace at all. i think that they're, you know, in need of something more than anyone else.

bill: you can't argue with the solid foundation of christianity, though, which is one of love.

manson: no. i mean, if you read the bible, there's a lot of good stories in there, a lot of good morals that i think exist and that everyone will agree with because they're in every culture. it's just the idea of suppressing people, making them feel guilty for being human beings. you know, the idea of sin is to -- that you're born a sinner, you're going to be guilty for being yourself all your life, and there's nothing you can do about it. so i think that leads to unhappiness. i think we should be proud of our faults, be proud of the fact that you can get angry, you hate somebody. it's not something that you should go cry about, you know. it's being human.

bill: do you still look down on the -- you said sort of the herd mentality, the sheep mentality that goes along with following a faith, where there is no room for individuality?

manson: well, "antichrist superstar" examined that on a lot of different levels. it even examined the herd mentality of rock 'n' roll. and i think by looking at that, it made all of us smarter. it made the fans smarter. it made me smarter. i think it gave us all the perspective to realize that christianity and rock 'n' roll are very similar in a sense, and if you can see that, you can point out your own hypocrisy, then you can go above it and you can try and be "realer" than anything else.

bill: is that message getting out though? because for the most part...

manson: ask these people.

bill: yeah, well, looking around, though, they're still dressed in black.

manson: well, that's good now 'cause i'm not, so they're not imitating me. they're being themselves. they're doing what they want to do. i think everybody's just trying to, you know -- it's also the idea that everyone can be a star. you know, you look around, you see these people. they're gonna stand out on the street corner more than anyone else, and that's their first step at, you know, being what they want to be. (crowd screaming outside)

bill: were you at all comfortable with the goth tag?

manson: goth music's, you know, been something that i've liked. i don't think i ever wanted to be limited to that.

bill: so this album almost was a --

manson: i think parts of this record are more goth than the last one if you want to look at it from, you know, that point of view. but, i mean, labels are for journalists, you know. i think it's just rock 'n' roll. that's what it's always been to me.

bill: okay. what you wore in "dope show," some might say could be representative of a feminine side to you. would you agree with that or maybe --

manson: well, to me, it was -- the image on the album cover was to represent vulnerability. it was to represent an undefinable persona to represent sexlessness and both sexes at the same time. so it did have feminine elements, but it was also sexless at the same time.

bill: okay. we're going to talk about the show tomorrow in toronto again, and how many more canadian dates? you had problems last time when you were here -- just one problem really.

manson: i think just one. this is the only one right now.

bill: okay. has it been smooth?

manson: so far, yeah.

bill: okay. the crowd chanting, some of the things you've been known to say in the past, i have to bring up. "we hate love, we love hate," which you get the crowd to repeat. does that still happen? do you want us to believe that?

manson: well, i think a lot of people, upon first hearing that, assume that to be a message of hatred, but i think it's a paradox and it's a contradiction. i think it's a very beautiful statement actually. it's very ironic.

bill: to encourage hate?

manson: i don't think it's encouraging hate. i think if you examine it and take it apart mathematically, it's not encouraging anything. but, you know, that song "irresponsible hate anthem" that that chant introduced was a mockery of what people think of me and what people think of my fans.

bill: okay. well, thanks for being here. appreciate it.

manson: thank you.

bill: and we're going to end right now. we're going to go back and take a look at "beautiful people," and sometime in the next couple weeks, we'll have a brand-new video from "mechanical animals" just for you. right now going back a few years to "beautiful people," marilyn manson on much

Tanscribed By Bizzare (stephen@uniserve.com)